13 Years on and Religious Orders Still haven't Paid their Agreed Amount for Redress

[Rob Northall]

Church gives up €42m in land deal for victims

But amount surrendered so far is 'way short' of what Government wanted for redress system

Daniel McConnell Twitter

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Published 01/02/2015 | 02:30

Seán Ó Foghlú: passed memo to Dáil committee

The Catholic Church has surrendered ownership of 44 properties worth €42m to the State as part of the Residential Institutions Redress Act, the Sunday Independent can reveal.

The Government wanted the religious orders to pay half of the total bill of €1.4bn needed for redress payments and legal costs. But so far the value of the asset handover is still a long way short of the €700m the State is demanding.

School buildings, convents, vestries, playing fields and associated lands across Ireland are included in the list. The highest value property handed over was grounds in Merrion, south Dublin, valued at €8.9m.

Documents sent to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) by Sean O Foghlu, Secretary General of the Department of Education, show that the properties were handed over "under the terms of the 2002 Indemnity Agreement".

According to his letter, which has been seen by this newspaper, the department agreed in principle with the Conference of Religious in Ireland to take control of 64 properties. These properties have been accepted "subject to good and marketable title and agreed valuations".

"This number has been reduced to 61 as the department has accepted and received a sum of cash in lieu of three properties where good and marketable title could not be established," Mr O Foghlu wrote.

According to the documents, apart from the significant site at Merrion, eight other properties worth more than €1m were surrendered.

They include a Terenure secondary school valued at €4.5m; St Teresa's convent at Temple Hill in Blackrock, valued at €3.1m, and a Traveller site also in Blackrock, which was valued at €3.1m. Other significant properties handed over included two separate properties in Tuam, Galway, valued at €3,020,000; St Anne's Secondary School, which was valued at €2,600,000; Holy Cross Gardens, Killarney, Co Kerry (€1,270,000); 23 Parnell Square, Dublin (€1,270,000); and Goldenbridge Group Homes, which were valued at €1,269,700.

As of December 31, a total of 44 properties have been transferred to the department and "there are no outstanding issues," Mr O Foghlu said.

The 44 properties, he said, represented two-thirds of the total monetary value of all properties being transferred under the Indemnity Agreement, excluding the cash in lieu settlement.

The documents went on to state that 17 properties have not yet fully transferred and "arrangements are being finalised".

"As it was likely that nine of the remaining properties would not meet the standard of good and marketable title required by the 2002 agreement, the Government agreed in 2013 that such properties could not be accepted," Mr O Foghlu said.

He said his department was engaging with the office of the Chief State Solicitor, who in turn is dealing with lawyers for the religious orders as well as the Health Service Executive (HSE).

The total cost of offering redress to the victims of abuse has soared to almost €1.4bn.

Under a controversial 2002 indemnity agreement, 18 religious orders which ran care institutions pledged to contribute €128m in cash, property and counselling services towards redress costs for abuse survivors. However, they later agreed to contribute €352.6 million for victims of institutional abuse. So far they have paid less than a quarter of that.

The documents, published yesterday under the Freedom of Information Act, give an overview of the payments made by 18 congregations to date.

In 2013, the then-Minister for Education Ruairi Quinn said the State "got nowhere" in convincing Catholic religious orders to pay for half of the cost of residential abuse claims. He said the religious bodies would not accept the principle of 50-50 under the State-backed redress scheme.

He said the State had so far spent around €1.4bn on legal costs and awards relating to abuse at residential institutions. Mr Quinn said as a result of paying this money out, and the inability to get the church to contribute an equal share, everything else must be considered when it came to reducing expenditure at the Department of Education.

He was speaking about the cost to the State of compensation payments for abuse of children at former reformatories, industrial schools and other institutions over several decades.

The State established the Residential Institutions Redress Board in 2002 to make compensation payments to former residents who were abused.

At one time the Catholic Church in Ireland owned or occupied more than 10,700 properties across the country and controlled nearly 6,700 religious and educational sites.

The asset portfolio included schools, houses, halls, churches, convents, parks, sports fields, hospitals, farms, warehouses, shops and tracts of land.

Sunday Independent http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/church-gives-up-42m-in-land-de...

[Rob Northall]

Church hands over €2.3m in six Limerick properties to State

The new secondary school in Doon, Scoil na Tr�on�ide Naofa, has been built on land which was handed over by the church to the State and was valued at �640,000. Picture:Michael Cowhey

by Aine Fitzgerald

Published on the 08 February
2015
14:00

0 comments Be the first to comment

 

THE Catholic Church has handed over six Limerick properties worth just over €2.3m to the State as part of the Residential Institutions Redress Act.

The Government wanted the religious orders to pay half of the total bill of €1.4bn needed for redress payments and legal costs. But so far the value of the asset handover is still a long way short of the €700m the State is demanding.

School buildings, convents, vestries, playing fields and associated lands across Ireland are included in a list of 44 properties worth €42m which were handed over nationwide.

According to a spokesperson for the Department of Education and Science the transfer of the Limerick properties “was completed some years ago - the most recent was in 2012”.

The highest value property handed over in Limerick was a site in Doon which was valued at €640,000.

The transferee in question was the Department of Education and Science and the site is now home to the new secondary school in Doon, Scoil na Tríonóide Naofa which was officially opened in November by Minister for Education, Jan O’Sullivan.

It was formed from the amalgamation of St Fintan’s CBS, Doon, St Joseph’s Convent of Mercy, Doon and St Michael’s College in Cappamore.

The Hospital Voluntary Housing Association was the transferee of property at the Presentation Convent in Hospital which was valued at €254,000.

The Presentation Secondary School building in Hospital which was valued at €175,000 was transferred to the Department of Education and Science.

Number 6, Mount Vincent Terrace on O’Connell Avenue in Limerick city which was valued at €400,000 was transferred to what was then known as the Mid-Western Health Board.

Convent land at Barrack Street in Limerick city valued at €625,000 was transferred to the Irish Wheelchair Association while

number 1, Garravogue Road, Raheen, Limerick which was valued at €228,550 was transferred to what was then known as the Mid Western Health Board.

The Redress Board was set up under the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 to make fair and reasonable awards to persons who, as children, were abused while resident in industrial schools, reformatories and other institutions subject to state regulation or inspection.

The total cost of offering redress to the victims of abuse has soared to almost €1.4bn.

Under a controversial 2002 indemnity agreement, 18 religious orders which ran care institutions pledged to contribute €128m in cash, property and counselling services towards redress costs for abuse survivors.

However, they later agreed to contribute €352.6 million for victims of institutional abuse.

So far they have paid less than a quarter of that.

At one time the Catholic Church in Ireland owned or occupied more than 10,700 properties across the country and controlled nearly 6,700 religious and educational sites. The asset portfolio included schools, houses, halls, churches, convents, parks, sports fields, hospitals, farms, warehouses, and shops.

Source http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/church-hands-over-2-3m-in-six-lim...

[Rob Northall]

Shame Of Ireland @ShameOfIreland  ·  1h 1 hour ago

@Limerick_Leader Re http://bit.ly/16L0elL  are you saying they have paid less than €88m to date? That's Less than their 2002 #IndemnityDeal

[Elizabeth Nicholas]

Hello Rob,   hope you and your wife are well.   I have just read your last message,   in fact I had to read it twice so that I could take it all in.   I might be a bit slow on the uptake, but does this mean that we(Survivors) have been shortchanged by the redress board, if that is the case where do we go from here.

[Rob Northall]

Hi Elizabeth there will be no more Money from the Redress Board Unless we can turn the Clock back and Undo the Indemnity Deal.

The Religious Orders appear not to have even paid their originally Agreed €128 Million!

After 13 years you would expect the Government to say they are in Breach of their Contract and Act accordingly?

However the Government seems to be still controlled by the Church?

Currently the situation is that the Irish Citizens have paid the Redress and the Church have not even paid what they agreed!

[Elizabeth Nicholas]

Hello Rob,  sorry to be a nuisance but could you please let me have Eileen MCMahon's tel no again 

as we seem to have come to a full stop over the next Caranua meeting unless we keep badgering

these people there will not be any money left in the fund for us.   I have asked once again   for financial

help but am being put off by someone named Lucy at caranua.   I would like them to explain the word FUND, to us,  is it not money/help for us Survivors ??   Rob would you know if the new school in LImerick was built with our money? if that is so its a disgrace,  would you agree.  Thanks Rob.

[Rob Northall]

Hi Elizabeth

Eileen McMahon can be Contacted on 0208 582 0214

Let me know how you get on? ThanX

Haven't heard about the new school will do a search on it ;-)

[Elizabeth Nicholas]

Hello Rob,   well I managed to speak with Eileen McMahon yesterday and things are not looking that good.   She said she was having problems getting in touch with any minister about caranua but there is one person a TD who may be willing to talk to her.   Eileen said she would love to get this TD person to come to the UK and have a meeting with the Survivors.  This might not happen until about sometime in May,  she also said that the CEO of caranua Mary Higgins was one who was not prepared to move on any change of the Trust Fund.  We are fighting big guns for what is ours whether it be help in housing etc. or financial.  Eileen gave me the the TD's name so I will email her if I can.

[robert]

I have written a letter to the Education Minister and done so many times I have contacted the Caranua fund also many times I have contacted the so called agent for me many times I have written to the Caranua  Apeals office so many times and still NOTHING.

I was sent a email from the Minister of Education and CEO also wrote to me stating that they have NOW GATHERED 81 million BUT wrote it in a way that seems to IMPLY the RELIGIOUS PAID it but read their filthy trickery and you will see NO WAY is the letters worth reading but only to use against thm as we have NO LEGAL REPRESENTITIVE to examine any Litrature from thiese offices so if the RELIGIOUS ARE NOT PAYING THEN WHO IS????????????????????????????????????????? 81 Million QUESTIONS IS THIS FUND  A FABRICATION??????????? what PROOF HAVE WE ???????? the questions are no longer asked as SURVIVORS they call us is a title to say we are ALL HEALED AND BETTER OR JUST THAT WE DID NOT DIE IN THEM HELL HOLES

[robert]

Daniel we must always remember back in 2006 the Religious said they would pay 600 plus million to the Survivors they wanted to pay it directly it was ONLY then the Government slammed down the Gauntlet and demanded the 50 50 deal under Minister Quinn who admitted spearheading this deal using the Illegal Indemnity agreement, I have been on this ever since 2006 and then noticed how Minister Quinn put in the claim to PREVENT the Religious paying survivors directly. The Government were pissed off that it cost so much but then we know for sure all their comrades earned a fortune on our backs and on our childhoods. THERE IS NO SUCH A THING AS A 50 50 DEAL IN CRIME otherwise ALL CRIMINALS could make the very same claim.

This Indemnity agreement was held outside the Dail Eirann and this alone makes it ILLEGAL and a false claim and SHOULD BE CHALLENGED before the Courts, The very truth they funded ILL GROUPS who were run by Alcoholics and decisions made by the such one can recall all agreements made between the then Education Minister and the previous leader of the ROPSC.

The same decision that caused children to be forced into these institutions is exactly the very same decision that has now taken place as they turn their backs on our children ( leaving young children of deprived survivors out in the cold a shocking truth ignored by all involved especially so called support Groups who by this proves they were the very tools that the Government and HSE as well as the Religious used to control the full force of this Horrific revelation of abuse that with THOUSANDS  of Witnesses they would have been totally destroyed in a court of law, these Groups sold the story to all survivors that they would not be beluieved personally if they went to COURT but as witnesses of these HELL HOLES the TRUTH would CHANGE POLITICS in the Western World. POVERTY is a FAILED GOVERNMENT simple as that Control is a force of TERROR and as Children we suffered this TERROR and the Punishments there of.

NOW they are forcing survivors to pay from their OWN compensation for Counselling for high class earners of a sum per white collar being a hugh 80,000 plus, this being AFTER they invented a 50 50 deal to reclaim over 500 million of that promised 600 million the religious promised so just maybe this is why the Religious are dragging their feet knowing if they allow the Government to do this they allow them to run all religious payments and charities would loose to them too.

The Government have no right to donated money to charities and thus all of this is a whole mess of curruption and false claims made by the Government and Groups they invented.

the was a near to zero agreed to this Statutory fund / Caranua that even the name has confused all survivors as to why the change.

Please REMEMBER always VERY IMPORTANT the Education Minister Quinn refused OUTRIGHT to attend a Survivors NATIONAL MEETING both here and the UK he absolutely REFUSED and has NO INTENTIONS WHAT SO EVER to attend a meeting. SO THERE IT ALL IS (((( PROOF )))) there is NO APOLOGY,  NO REAL 50 50 agreement, NO MAJORITY of VOTES for this CARANUA FUND, NOT ONE DOCUMENT FORM LETTER IN THE APPLICATION for CARANUA that SIDES WITH ANY SINGLE SURVIVOR it all leans to a WELFARE DICTATORSHIP on HOW YOU CAN SPEND YOUR OWN MONEY / COMPENSATION and NOT ONE GROUP HAS FOUGHT EVER FOR ANY SURVIVOR RIGHTS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT THE RELIGIOUS.

I AM STILL ASKING the CEO Mary Higgins

1. Where is the promise to talking with the HEALTH Minister for SPECIAL Medical cards for all health/ dental sight hospital costs and prescriptions etc.

2. Where is the promise to talking to the WELFARE Minister on special needs survivors have in their lives single parent, mobility allowances, hardships etc

3. Where is the promise to talking to the justice Minister to make sure survivors are CLEARED of ALL CRIMINAL CHARGES that Caused them to be forced into INSTITUTIONS or just that they were put into these Institutions wothout any reason but POVERTY.

4. why do survivors have to pay massive wages from this fund?

5. where is the audit documents to explain how this money is being collected as well as where this first lump sum is stashed, the sum seems to be rising rapidly, yet they claim the Religious are not paying, there is something extreemly wrong here and very very dark that even a fool like me can see in that dark.

The REDRESS needs to be revisited and those who worked in these Institutions as Children should be re-compensated as CHILD SLAVERY is a CULTURAL CRIME not a need of the Institution the Redress claimed to be simply as chores as Children as young as 5 years had to manufacture goods for sale.

And Finally the REDRESS REFUSED to list HOW MANY INSTITUTIONS a Person suffered again the ROPSC leader was so proud to say he was the one who agreed to that bill HUH a ALCOHOLIC who never had a clue, but dare you question him in your vulnerability.

[Barbie]

Maybe we should bring a class action lawsuit against everyone on them for the culture of slavery, imprisonment living in complete poverty as children with no say what happened to us, not only by the religious but the government of 2015!! We are being told how and what we should spend our fund on - as survivors we should be able to access the interest from this fund and never have to touch the main €110 million - our children and future generations should only have access to this fund and no one else! Can you imagine how much interest is  accumulated from €110 million - it is shocking to think we will not receive a penny of the interest from that money!  

[Elizabeth Nicholas]

Hi Barbara  just had a reply from the minister's secretary saying that she is considering  a review of the caranua fund later this year.   If something is not done soon all our money will have vanished. I am still asking for financial help but continuously being fobbed off.   We need some honest person to speak for us but is there such a person in the Irish government,   yes the interest is growing but the only ones who are getting the benefit  are the staff in caranua.  

[Barbie]

Hi Elizabeth, we are just being robbed once again by these people, our childhoods were robbed from us and now our government of 21st century in 2015 is robbing us again!! We are not even kept in the loop as to what is happing to all the land and property that has been handed over by the religious to our so called government. I can bet you any money the Minister will come back after her review of Caranua and inform us that all of the fund has now been used up! Unfortunately, Elizabeth I would not have any trust in any person in the present government to speak for us. I do know a couple of people that are independents in the Dail that might speak out on our behalf. I feel the only way for us and to get anyone to take this on board and how the governments in Ireland work is "Who ever shouts the loudest gets the most" and we need to start shouting if we are to have anything done, we are just to quiet.